Ermilov Sergey Fedorovich( From July 2000 - Minister of Fuel and Energy of Ukraine.)
Comments for Ermilov Sergey Fedorovich
Biography Ermilov Sergey Fedorovich
Sergei Ermilov: after three years should not be a Ministry of Fuel "
. - Sergey Fedorovich, . appointment you, . Professional Power, . Head of Fuel and Energy Ministry of Ukraine can be considered as recognition of the importance and complexity of the problems and the situation on the energy market of Ukraine, . requiring the heads of relevant ministries specific energoznaniyN,
. - Problems in energootrasli and in the energy sector there, I can confirm
. And the main problem is that in the processes that occurred in the Ukrainian economy all these years, energy is not able to put issues of the industry so that it was appropriate to account. That is, use it, squeezed in a word, doispolzovalis to that of the energy is little left. And today, the first thing to do, it's still demand respect for labor workers in the sector. And I'm talking about all nearly a half million employees at fuel and energy complex, including miners. When we make our work to respect, that is, pay for it, the problems will be less. Second, you want to do serious training, so that available funds are used effectively. I can not say that today even the available money is used effectively. There was no strategy for the structure of the energy balance of the country. Do not dare the diversification of energy supplies. Decisions taken by a simple algorithm. You know, gas in our closing stages: coal, fuel oil burned whole, nuclear fuel - how much could have bought, all the rest "we reach" gas. And, as a rule, debt. Although the gas - not the most fuel efficient today at a price. The most cost-effective fuel today - coal, including import
. - And it said the domestic fuel and energy minister, said the advantages of imported uglyaN!
. - This is the problem of the coal industry, we do not hide the fact that today must be addressed in order to introduce the work of all existing enrichment facilities TsOFov (central mill tailings) and to achieve high quality products
. Now we have set this task before the heads of mining companies, and they understand that there nestimuliruyuschy criterion, such as pay and subsidy per ton of coal. Although the mine while the majority of loss-making ...
- And who came up with a figure in general and why it still primenyayutN
- Someone once invented, and so far it is used. Yes, today grants mines needed, it is an axiom. Such subsidies have in many states. But another thing is that the subsidies should encourage production. And when there is a calculation of tons of coal, the temptation to just pile up more rocks to get more money ... If the calculations were determined, say, in terms of calorie content, probably, the situation with the quality of domestic coal would have been different, however, as in the rest of the industry.
- And what, before this no one ponimalN
- Previously, different everything was managed, focused on Gross. And to resolve the current situation is hardly possible to find a quick solution. This should be a systematic and deliberate strategy. And this at a recent meeting between Prime Minister and I talked with the miners. We discussed the prospects, in particular, relations with the government sector, with employees. We have identified strategic goals and will work in this direction.
- But the miners now, perhaps, more interested in unpaid salaries ...
- This is also discussed, but it was not the main theme. This month, the government maintains a schedule of payments to miners, the unions are sensitive to this. Although, unfortunately, to return all the debts, accumulated over many years, the government can not afford.
- "Power" Vice Premier for Ukraine - is already the practice, the role of energy in the fuel and energy minister - a precedent.
- Why pretsedentN And to me, the Energy Ministry was headed by professional energy. I would not focused. Especially since I'm only the second minister of fuel and energy.
- In your opinion, the head of Fuel and Energy Ministry of Ukraine - a political figure or government official, even the highest rank, only burdened with the highest executive vlastyuN In any case, I ask "decipher" your vision.
- The ultimate goal of administrative reform - to make a ministerial policy. But overnight, this is not possible, so that a period of ministers and officials will remain. A floor ITIC minister is already - on the level and scope of decisions.
- And the structure itself and the apparatus of Fuel and Energy Ministry has already sformirovanyN
- In general, I believe that the backbone of the Ministry held; Tulub managed to do. But it was impossible to foresee all at once, for example, document. For example, correspondence between the departments of the Ministry - we need it or netN All these problems we are addressing in working order. The upper structure of the Ministry will be responsible for coordination in the energy industry and strategic planning departments - issues of sectoral management and collaboration. And eventually, when the main privatization will be carried out, for example, in power, when the problem will be resolved in the energy crisis ...
- When it budetN
- I think within a year everything will be OK. At the same time, and many of the current functions Minton-energy start to wither away. Indeed, in many countries there is no Ministry of Fuel, but none of that does not suffer and fuel balance is optimal. For example, in Ukraine there is no Ministry of bananas, and bananas are all year round ...
- You want to say that the Ministry of Fuel - this is a temporary yavlenieN
- In essence, most of today's function in it should be a temporary phenomenon. If I could see his perspective on two or three years, I would say that within three years should not be such Mintopenergo. It would not be necessary, subject to repetition rate of the government's reform.
- And where will go away Army ministerial chinovnikovN
- Officials will go to work. They are not so much: 500 people in 1.5 million. working.
- Do - in shahtyN!
- For all segments of the fuel and energy complex today, one of the principal - the personnel problem. Removed from their positions as leaders, not worrying about where to get trained specialist in his place. But prepare to be sometimes more than one decade ...
- On the recent appointment of the management of "Energoatom" you had some otnoshenieN
- Yes, it was my suggestion: young, educated, ambitious. And while that no appointment in the industry without my participation does not cost.
- And with all the prescriptions you soglasnyN
- With all because all appointments are consistent with me. Not only the leaders of the Energoatom ", but" Naftogaz Ukraine ", the first head of which is both one of my deputies
. - Do your predecessor as head of the Ministry of Fuel, . far as we know, . were principal, . can, . probably, . say - political differences with the government curator TEK - Deputy Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko (which mainly, . apparently, . triggered his resignation ...),
. Not bother you that you will probably encounter the same problemamiN How do you intend to razreshatN And how do build your vzaimootnosheniyaN
- As it should - business ethics, the subordination. I use in my work all the positive things that the deputy prime minister brings to the work of the fuel and energy complex ... We have disagreements on issues such as management industry. But I - the Minister and the case will do so as I saw fit. As for political differences, so I do not belong to any party, and Yulia Timoshenko, as everyone knows, is headed by a party "BatkEvschina". I am not a supporter and opponent of the party. So in this sense, the political differences you will not find
. - In your opinion, . Should the Ministry of Fuel to be (or will), . and you - as the "energy", Minister, . relatively independent political figure in the government UkrainyN What is obuslovlenoN you do not bother, . that the post of Ministry of Fuel and under constant stress: Political, . ekonomicheskimN,
. - Must be independent, particularly with regard to protecting the interests of the industry
. And to be inside the Cabinet of Ministers of yourself - I do not see for himself the goal of. Naturally, I am independent, an independent policy within the ministry, in the same strategy of the Cabinet of Ministers, of course, I must obey the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister. All ministers solve their problems, and present understanding of the. For example, traditionally laid the conflict between energy and agricultural producers. They then have to sow, then remove, but when it comes to calculations, it turns out that paying to use energy they have no money. So the other day, along with the Minister MinAPK Kirilenko we have signed and sent a very severe joint and contents of the telegram to the regions and warned, . that is from September 1 defaulters-state-owned enterprises will disable power supply in case of failure,
. I think that if I, as you say, set themselves apart from my colleague Minister, then find a compromise, we could never. With regard to the political forces, I think there must be compromise, and self. For example, the same Supreme Council, without whose support we simply can not solve any problem - so many gaps in the law: you have to take the Energy Code, to adopt amendments to the dozens of laws ... But to criticize the President - I think that it is not self
. - Sergey Fedorovich, excuse me, but let me ask you straight: you - the person of the President, Prime Minister Yushchenko, Deputy Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko or someone escheN example, "protege" ISD, Itera, RAO UES of Russia ", "Gazprom", "Atomic" or even someone toN
. - From a political standpoint as a minister I - a man the Prime Minister and President
. The Minister is personally responsible to the President for the work entrusted to it by section. And without the support of the President today it is impossible to restore order.
- You - a supporter, or WEM you closer to the views of Y. Tymoshenko on this account, which said that the WEM in what was then its form - is nonsense, anti-market obrazovanieN
- I can not say that Tymoshenko was against the wholesale electricity market. Those amendments are made to the law "On electric power, consolidated working model of the energy market. Man did not come out of the industry, he needed some time to understand the situation, although, of course, negative moment ...
- But Yulia did not interfere in the direct work energetikiN
- And even the structural units, well, it is too stiff, it often reaches the level of directors of companies that are not always bad. But the negative is that it interferes in the direct work of energy companies, the distribution of money in the wholesale market. ZachemN There are leaders, they have a contract, and they are responsible for their work.
. - You said that in principle, we come to that Ministry of Fuel as a unit of administrative management system will be unnecessary. A post of "energy" Vice premeraN
- This should be within the competence of the first deputy prime minister, who oversees the industry, real sector, to which the objective is energy and all other segments of the fuel and energy complex. If all this worked first vice-premier, the coordination of the real sector would be more optimal
. - What energy policy and how you intend to practice and provoditN What does it depend on your view, given that government policy (strategic) for TAC in Ukraine almost otsutstvuetN
. - With regard to public policy in energy and fuel and energy complex in general, I would not say so categorically about her complete lack
. Here's why: a national energy program, that this program is not running today, as it is written, and today we are forced to adjust the national program - it is objectively. Revise the program - yes, it is necessary to place accents - it is necessary. The fact that we have launched our very public policy to diversify, too objectively ... Therefore, the first thing we should do is to ensure that the resource industries (coal, gas, fuel oil) has been paid. After that, to optimize each fuel component. The same power should cost as much as it is in fact. Today this is not, and cost the industry many years not fully recovered. Going depletion of fixed assets, current assets elute ... Second, that we as a nation must do - is to articulate what way the development of energy and fuel and energy complex, we will go. Or we will continue to almost 80% dependent on gas from Russia to 100% - Nuclear Fuels, for the same 80% - on neftiN And depend on one country, even if we have with this country and the best of relations - this is wrong. So today the diversification of energy supplies delivered to the Government at the center. However, this is not a matter of one year, and the program for decades. In Russia, for example, there is a program of nuclear power for 50 years.
- And nasN
- And we have ... There is a program for the next three years - to build a couple of blocks to the plant as replacement units of the Chernobyl NPP. And. And the future of the industry is uncertain. We exist, however, Energy Development Program 2010. But this industry is not a term, to predict the development of such industries should be at least 50 years, taking into account all internal and external trends and strategies for use of resources. For example, in the light of what is happening in Germany, which refuse the use of nuclear energy, I have to focus the Ukrainian energootrasl, its heat of the use of coal. Coal enough, we just paid the miners 17-20% in the last five years and completely exhausted the resource of coal associations. Despite the fact that they had this huge industry subsidies. The first, best step toward diversification could be the development of its own resource base. In our immediate plans - reducing consumption of natural gas for energy in 2001 to 2 mlrd.kubometrov due to the increase of coal production, improve its quality, the development of "Naftogaz Ukraine" and its resource base
. - As a professional energy, as you personally and as a minister took the prospects of the wholesale electricity market (WEM) and how to evaluate its current polozhenieN
. - I have already said that I am a supporter of the chosen business model of the wholesale electricity market
. And taken in recent months, the government steps have already led to the fact that the collection of funds in this market, for example, in July was 65% (previously collected nearly 12%). Once the privatization process will take place in the energy sector, we will go to the fact that the existing state enterprise "Energy Market" has become a kind of association of wholesale market participants, who will manage the situation. And the sooner this happens, the sooner everyone will be better.
- So, you are not against privatization and power companies, and generating kompaniyN
- Not only do not mind, but consider that this process be accelerated. The objectives of privatization are clearly defined the relevant decrees of the President. State Property Fund seeks a way to fill the budget, the Ministry of Fuel - find effective property during privatization. It remains to combine these objectives. And while that with the MFI, we can find a common language. And the third challenge - attracting investment and industry, and on specific companies.
- This applies to the privatization AESN
- In the world there are successful examples of different forms of ownership of nuclear power. I think the current (state) form of governance "Energoatom" today, has outlived itself and should move to a corporate model. In this sense, "Naftogaz Ukraine" - more than the optimal organizational form. Therefore, the course of corporatization "Energoatom" I think it's right. What should be the share of state property during the subsequent privatizatsiiN I think that the state can put up for sale 25-percent package, it does not lead to greater risks. Of "Energoatom" only superficially successful company, but at the expense of many parasites, as indicated, and 500 million. UAH. Its loss last year. We do not intend to accept it, and Fuel and Energy Ministry has proposed to the Cabinet of Ministers to ban any discounting the value of energy produced and release "Energoatom".
- With your appointment as the "energy" Minister virtually coincided adoption "energopopravok" governing, inter alia, the introduction of external management in energy companies, primarily in the power companies (m. e. in seven of the privatized power companies). NERC (National Commission for Regulation of the energy market) was, in my opinion, untold powers. You think this is a modern, market podhodomN
- I think this is a normal process that ensures the right of States to protect their interests. In particular, co-owned by some power companies. For several of these companies, apparently, will soon be introduced external control. Those who fulfills the requirements on a pro rata payment and transfers the funds to "Energy Market", will continue to work.
- But in the text of the regulations governing the imposition of external control, according to many experts, cover a variety of nuances, allowing wish to use this document as a pole ...
- This decree was being prepared just in that transitional period, when the Ministry of Fuel and virtually no minister, and without the expertise of our ministry. Even the mention of the Ministry of Fuel and there is no. Therefore, when the now Deputy Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko insists on the introduction of external control in some of the privatized power companies, I say: please, enter, but the Ministry of Fuel and this has nothing to do. But NERC under the law, too, may not impose external control, although it is written in the order. We tried to figure out what is required to drive external manager. The law "On electric power, in whose development and to take this decision, said such a relationship in terms of production, transmission and supply of electric power. So external control should be imposed only in this part where the rules have not been kept of the law. But you can not put the external manager, who will dispose of the property, "steer" current account, transformer substations, or sell something to buy. From this situation we find such a solution. We have already identified all the possible legal conflicts are possible in connection with the order, ie. defined, as there should be. Now we will make to the Cabinet of Ministers of the amendments to this Ordinance, which will certainly be spelled out, as it will be possible to carry out external control, without violating the nearly two dozen existing laws
. - What, in your opinion, should be the policy NERC and its role in the energy sector gosudarstvaN
. - If we say that after three years should not be such as now, the Fuel and Energy Ministry, this means that there should be strengthened role of national commissions to regulate the energy market
. The functions of control and regulation. Monitoring of the observance of the rights of consumers, regulation of monopolies. This is a normal market-based approach
. - Sergey Fedorovich, . recently I heard, . that "the Ukrainian side has high hopes for a single energy balance with Russia ..." Is it true, . and it is now government policy of Ukraine on TEKN! How do you assess the possibility of "unity of the energy mix" N And why is Ukraine, and led you MintopenergoN,
. - When the Prime Minister said about a single energy balance, it was not a fact that Ukraine is uniquely dependent on Russia for energy supplies
. We will explore and use all opportunities to ensure the needs of Ukraine for energy. For example, the purchase of fossil fuel in third countries, except Russia
. - Is it true, . that the official representatives of the Government of Russia had notified the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, . that Ukraine should not expect more in the gas supply to the holding IteraN PochemuN I've also heard, . Ukrainian energy that the contract with Itera has led to, . that almost all collected for electricity in the country means straight left to pay for gas, . but almost nothing left for other needs of energy,
. Do you think this deal beneficial or constructive way to address problemyN And will you continue to authorize such "venture" N
. - With regard to prevention, there are no documents to that effect I have not seen, so it's nothing I can say about it
. But heard the statement that the government of Russia did not interfere in the activities of economic entities. And on the contract with the holding company Itera, I'll just show you the figures. Today energy is really buys gas only from that company. We take every day 27-28 million. cubic meters to 45 dollars per 1000 cubic meters. And although there are debts, Itera, we continued to deliver gas in the hope that we calculate. Now the calculation is at the level of 60-65%. But when they say that all the money goes only to Itera, with this I can not agree. In July, for example, we have on the energy market was almost 450 million. UAH., for the gas we paid 160. This is approximately 30% of the collected money - m. e. approximate share of the resource in the energy. In August, we plan to collect 660 million. UAH. and to increase payments coal companies that, subject to the parameters of the program before the end of the year will undoubtedly lead to increased production of thermal coal (see. schedule). In any case, in August we were able to break the trend of a catastrophic collapse of coal mining. Although, of course, power would have liked to had more gas and cost is cheaper. We are currently consulting with Russia on this subject ...
- You are in uchastvueteN
- While not directly, consultations are at the expert level. But I can say that has already compiled a list of issues on which to seek compromise.
- You can name at least some of nihN
- With the Russians we have agreed that before the start of formal negotiations at the level of prime ministers did not comment, because there are many rumors that prevents the case ..
. - How much truth to the uninitiated Yushchenko Ukrainian government's intention to give a long-term concession of 50% of the Ukrainian gas transport system ( "big transit") rossiyanamN zachemN Why and under what conditions, if takN
. - What is happening today with the Ukrainian gas transport sistemoyN We actually have it today, together with Gazprom use
. No one can deny. And Russia pays for the use of our gazomagistraley, even gas, but pays, the equivalent of payment - about 2.5 billion. U.S.. Although we have come to believe that this is not the most effective form of work for today.
- "We" - this ktoN
- Russia and the Ukrainian side. Indeed, one suggestion was to either create a joint venture, any portion of the gas transportation system to give a concession, the best part, but not the entire system. But, first, to determine the cost of gas transportation system, and then it will be possible to say what part of it, we can offer Russia and under what conditions ... When people talk about concessions, many know so that ostensibly need 100% of all gas to give Russia. No, this question does not arise, and the Prime Minister Yushchenko since the issue is not set. And then, you ask only that you can imagine. But this is not all that is discussed at the expert level yet. But, by and large, the Russians have gas, we have - gas pipelines, we can not do without their gas, they - without our pipes. Must be found kompromissN must. I agree with the fact that the patriotic forces in Ukraine are experiencing that the government makes a mistake, and somewhere right decision to protorguetsya. I want to assure our patriots that will be selected the most optimal variant for Ukraine.
- Are the Russians in almost an ultimatum stated that in 2001, Ukraine 1000 cubic meters of gas will cost about 100 doll.N and that it responded ukraintsyN And whether Ukraine annually for stealing 1 billion. cubic meters of Russia's export gazaN!
- There was no ultimatum, I have not heard. Today, prices are provided by previous agreements and contracts. Nor was there any formal proposals to amend them. Yes, Europe is buying Russia's gas average of $ 100. If we speak of a civilized approach, we should get used to pay for everything, as is done all over the world, but also demand for their services as the world price. All the more so that Ukraine becomes solvent market, and around the world are fighting for such consumers. Russia needs markets - we are her nearest neighbor, and therefore objectively necessary. So all a matter of patience and took into account all other aspects of the relationship.
- What do you see the role of so-called independent energy supplier in the Ukrainian energorynkeN Or are they - a relic of the times energonestabilnostiN
- At this stage, they turned the work. Not because they are administratively forced to do so, but because they became economically unprofitable. First they worked on the barter or promissory note schemes, shifting the losses to the power company, today is only possible cash payment, plus payment of taxes, but they are not ready for this. Although it has now emerged several companies that buy electricity in the wholesale market for the "live" money. Independent will always be, because they are naturally more mobile and effective than the same power companies, whoever they were managed, but the old, inefficient, independent intermediaries will inevitably wither away.
- Ukraine has a real chance to resume "gazotorgovye" relations with Turkmenistan, or is it only "argument" in a protracted "gazodolgovom" dispute with RossieyN
- While that is a negotiation process. In general, all of this is dictated by the real economic calculations. If we will be profitable to buy Turkmen gas (taking into account the risk that Russia can not miss it and buy ...),. The same applies to all other sellers of energy. And the problem is solved debts in order to "close" to fully.
- Do you think that "energonalogovymi" means Russia doggedly pushes Ukraine into a customs soyuzN PochemuN!
- This lies in the heart mentioned methods. Have something to change my opinion, it's obvious ..
. - How do you assess the presence, including condominium Russian oil, electricity and gas companies in UkraineN What, in your opinion, can lead to Ukraine this tendentsiyaN
. - The mere participation of foreign business and capital in the Ukrainian enterprises are not contrary to existing legislation
. Come on, we on the privatization ... And it could participate and domestic financial institutions, particularly in the privatization of refineries. In the same energy and gas industry in the presence of Russia's capital until there is. And what it will turn, depends largely on the concept of such participation.
- If tomorrow the miners again will be knocking helmets at the walls of the Cabinet, your deystviyaN And that you, as Minister of skazheteN..
- Today, near the Cabinet of miners not. And we have done everything to ensure that they were not there. Moreover, the unions have decided to abandon the protest, check out our plans and results of government action. Regressniki do receive all payments in the same proportion as the working miners, as this one fund payment. Another thing is that not all that happy with, some would immediately repayment of all debts. But the country has accumulated arrears to several billion, and we can not repay the entire amount at once. So it hardly makes sense to knock helmets. We are doing everything we can.
- Are you familiar with the progress and results of hundreds of criminal cases brought by the "landing" in the Prosecutor General energetikuN And as you this otnositesN
- No, I do not know. But in principle, think that the Prosecutor General's mission - to monitor compliance with legislation. But there should be no kinks.
- Sergey Fedorovich, sorry, but the age of "energy" state official in Ukraine is so short, that you, as minister, the recently appointed, would probably fit sympathize ... What are you going to do after the board MintopenergoN
- I reported this until I think.